keith100
newbie
Reged: 11/12/2007
Posts: 34
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im about to fit wavy discs to my gsxr, and was wondering do i need different pads or will standard ones fit ok?
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FastBikerBoy
old hand
Reged: 08/11/2006
Posts: 1180
Loc: Norfolk, UK - Police State
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Standard will be okay but new ones with new discs.
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FBB
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 5369
Loc: Mind your own business
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If they are the cheap one's off ebay or not Galfer/Braking then my advise is to sell em the others are truly shite quality and I wouldn't trust them not to come apart, I had a K6 GSXR600 with a set fitted the bike had less than 3500m when I got it and they were totally fucked and falling apart. If they are Galfer or Braking they should come with their own pads and have their makers name stamped on the carrier.
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BigHam
old hand
Reged: 12/11/2006
Posts: 1161
Loc: Letchworth, UK
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Standard pads will be ok, but make sure you use new pads when you fit new discs.
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http://www.myspace.com/big_ham_1988
Where there's a will and Gaffa Tape there's a way!
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morepower
enthusiast
Reged: 21/12/2006
Posts: 276
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Quote:
im about to fit wavy discs to my gsxr, and was wondering do i need different pads or will standard ones fit ok?
Why do you want to use wave discs? They are usually worse than standard ones after a few months as the sharp edges dull and become less effective.
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I'm not competitive, I just like a good veiw!
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makka
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 13/05/2007
Posts: 2553
Loc: Jungle, Near Byron Bay, Austra...
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Looks good tho dunnit
they should call them chavdiscs 
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makka
drinking heavily
it's the only solution
Well, maybe meditation helps too.
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Billyw
enthusiast
Reged: 12/05/2007
Posts: 287
Loc: Woking Surrey
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To be honest I was thinking of getting a pair, purely for looks (sad I know) but after reading morepowers previous comments in another post I thought why waste over 200 quid changing my perfectly good discs that there is sod all wrong with.
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'Money, it turned out was like sex, you thought of nothing else if you didn't have it and thought of other things if you did'
James baldwin, 1924-1987,American writer.
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keith100
newbie
Reged: 11/12/2007
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Quote:
im about to fit wavy discs to my gsxr, and was wondering do i need different pads or will standard ones fit ok?
Why do you want to use wave discs? They are usually worse than standard ones after a few months as the sharp edges dull and become less effective.
i thought they were supposed to be better than standard ones! i read that they deal with heat better. they will defo look better tho :-)
its a bit late now coz ive already bought them anyway, plus new pads and new lines.
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BigHam
old hand
Reged: 12/11/2006
Posts: 1161
Loc: Letchworth, UK
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Quote:
i thought they were supposed to be better than standard ones! i read that they deal with heat better. they will defo look better tho :-)
They look ok, not sure about better heat dissipation, they originially came from MX bikes because the wave pattern helps to clear shite from the discs and pads.
I believe cast iron discs probably offer better outright stopping power though.
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http://www.myspace.com/big_ham_1988
Where there's a will and Gaffa Tape there's a way!
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Biggles
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 2206
Loc: I am over here!
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I have some. I will keep you posted on how they shape up.
I replaced my standard ones as I had done a lot of work making my bike faster, I thought it a good idea to make it slower too, first I gave the calipers a good service and changed lines to Hel and moved to Dot5 fluid hoping to improve the braking performance. Then I bought the wavies.
My jury is out on them, as it was a fairly economic change and so far has worked well. I bought Braking wavies (I had read and taken on board what MP thinks about them).
I did a bit of research and the really cheap ones may have got the whole breed a bad rep.
I also talked to a few folk who used them and a pattern emerged that sometimes peeps with Galfers seemded to have trouble. Then I talked to HM racing who used to supply TAS Suzuki with Galfers (Galfers used to sponsor them) but TAS didn't get Galfers to work and switched to Braking and were happy with them (even though they were still sponsored by Galfer). So I thought it worth a try-Braking also will replace the rotors if you have a problem.
I can see what MP means about the edges but if the entire surface wears down, then the edges will stay sharp-I am monitoring mine with a micrometer and if they start to step then I will take them back-I still have my OE ones.
The benefits so far have been much sharper and consistant braking plus an unexpected bonus (as they weigh much the same as standard ones), is that at naughty speeds the bike seems to change direction a touch quicker. I imagine this is because their weight is more central-less gyrospopic effect. In the wet they lose the initial bight, but perform fine after that, although that may be the pads.
Lastly Kawasaki have been putting embrio wavies on their bikes for a couple of years now and they seem to work 
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Post US election quote "They've kicked our backsides, we've got to lick our wounds..." )
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keith100
newbie
Reged: 11/12/2007
Posts: 34
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i'll keep you posted on how i get on with mine just as soon as ive fitted them
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morepower
enthusiast
Reged: 21/12/2006
Posts: 276
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Quote:
I gave the calipers a good service and changed lines to Hel and moved to Dot5 fluid hoping to improve the braking performance. Then I bought the wavies.
I can see what MP means about the edges but if the entire surface wears down, then the edges will stay sharp-I am monitoring mine with a micrometer and if they start to step then I will take them back-I still have my OE ones.
Lastly Kawasaki have been putting embrio wavies on their bikes for a couple of years now and they seem to work
OK just a quick one about DOT5 Fluid. I used to sell DOT5 and still have it in my bike so this may sound odd! But I wouldn't reccomend a swap over to DOT5 Silicone fluid. I did it years ago and the seals in the master cylinder had a couple of years use, and are not made of EPDM which is now the most common brake seal material, with DOT4 and had time to absorb DOT4 fluid before the swap. Now if the bike is quite new or has seals made of a material called EPDM Silicone DOT5 can be a problem. Even though Silicone is almost inert and will not attack the seals EPDM needs brake fluid to soak into the seal to work correctly. When we supply master cylinders or seals we either reccomend they are primed with fluid and left over night or we supply the seals which have been soaked in fluid. We have had customers who have used DOT5 and found the brakes weap fluid so I would reccomend sticking with DOT4 or 5.1 which is not silicone based. Halfords do a good 5.1 fluid and so did SBS with their 201 brake fluid. As SBS have stopped producing the fluid I now use the Halfords stuff!
As for wear on wave discs. The pads bite into the sharp leading edges first and the edges dull and will not be sharp as they were even though the thickness will be still quite close to the brand new discs. This is because the pads can move enough to catch the sharp edges. Now some discs have a more pronounced wave and can also suffer a pulsing at the lever as well as accelerated wear of the pads. I have had a few heated discussions with Sergio Garcia from Galfer and he has never backed up his claims on another US based forum. There was one WSB team using wave discs but soon went back to traditional full circle discs during that season as they did not get the advantage claimed by the supplier. I know this as I also deal with the team and was told first hand. If they did what they claim I would be happy and sell them but I have to go with what I know works as I do not want product being sent back or deal with customers who do not get the gain they expect. I stand by all the products I sell and do try new things out and if I am not 100% happy I do not offer them.
The Kawasaki discs are only a token wave and with only 5mm dips along the top of the disc and nice softened edges they do not suffer with pulsing but do not offer any advantage over standard type discs in stopping power and only have a small saving in weight.
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I'm not competitive, I just like a good veiw!
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Biggles
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 2206
Loc: I am over here!
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Thanks MP!
Don't like the seal worry-mines an 07 gsxr1000.
DOT 4 and DOT 5 can be mixed, so if move back to DOT 4, or change to 5.1 I should be okay 
Looks like I may well have gently f*cked up in the longrun.
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Post US election quote "They've kicked our backsides, we've got to lick our wounds..." )
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BigHam
old hand
Reged: 12/11/2006
Posts: 1161
Loc: Letchworth, UK
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Quote:
Thanks MP!
Don't like the seal worry-mines an 07 gsxr1000.
DOT 4 and DOT 5 can be mixed, so if move back to DOT 4, or change to 5.1 I should be okay
Looks like I may well have gently f*cked up in the longrun.
I thought mixing DOT 4 and DOT 5 was a big no no. 
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http://www.myspace.com/big_ham_1988
Where there's a will and Gaffa Tape there's a way!
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Biggles
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 2206
Loc: I am over here!
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I am probably going to 5.1 as MP suggests, but on the bottle of 5 pretty sure it said it was okay to mix?. Putoline. I maybe wrong as I didn't do the deed, it was done for me before I knew about the change to 5.
Either way its a full drain 
Also there is going to be a bit of straight taliking with the peeps who put in the DOT5.
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Post US election quote "They've kicked our backsides, we've got to lick our wounds..." )
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Biggles
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 2206
Loc: I am over here!
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Def should not mix DOT 4 with 5, I swapped,... I think.
Can you feel the growing neurosis?
Just wondering whether the Putoline might have been 5.1. Had a look online and they make both. Going to have to wait and check whether they used 5 or 5.1. Pretty sure it was 5 as I queered it at the time even though it was too late.
So as I don't know for *absolutely sure* cannot do anything about it till next week. Really wish I had done all the work myself. I would not have changed to DOT5.
It seems 3, 4 and 5.1 can all be mixed. If I move to 5.1 from 5, I don't know whether a straight drain + bleed is going to be enough. IE would the inevitable residue screw things up?
If so, looks like I might be stuck with DOT5.
Edited by Biggles (24/05/2008 17:18)
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BigHam
old hand
Reged: 12/11/2006
Posts: 1161
Loc: Letchworth, UK
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DOT 5 can bugger the seals in systems that state DOT 4.
Yep 4 and 5.1 can all be used in a system that specifies DOT 4 or above.
I could well stand to be correct on this, but I've only seen DOT 3 in use on scoots.
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http://www.myspace.com/big_ham_1988
Where there's a will and Gaffa Tape there's a way!
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FastBikerBoy
old hand
Reged: 08/11/2006
Posts: 1180
Loc: Norfolk, UK - Police State
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Shit and I'm just about to put some braided lines on mine, you 're all scaring me shitless.
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FBB
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shinybusa
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/01/2008
Posts: 1606
Loc: away with the fairies..
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Right .stop it!! You all know I'm a mechanical fuckwit, I got to change the brake fluid on the 'Busa, you've got me all confused.....I know that's not difficult.. 
I take it DOT 4 fluid is the one to use, the DOT 5 is race spec and will fuck the seals in my brakes.....I don't fancy hitting the Anchors with the Mrs on the back and nothing happening.......SHE WILL BE UNHAPPY!!!. .
What is the right one to use.......I know I used to be an Engineer, but I was the one doing the blowey up stuff...not fixing shit! If it's broke hit it with a bigger Hammer!!!
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Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day....
Teach a man to fish.........................................and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day!!
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Biggles
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 2206
Loc: I am over here!
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Not sure it is fair or correct to say DOT5 rots seals-it is simply synthetic, and very high grade at that used my many race teams.
MP pointed out that some seals benefit from organic fluids ability to lube them, and pointed out that he runs synthetic DOT5 himself but had previously had DOT4 in the system (like me).
There are advantages to DOT5-it does not get sullied by water vapour and has a higher boiling temp and is inert.
So if you want to learn from my (annoying experience), it is the old adage if it ain't broke don't fix it.
If your bike has DOT4 stick with that, or go to DOT5.1 (which I didn't even know existed till today).
Dot5.1 is compatable and exedes the DOT4 standard-it is organic and can be mixed with other organic fluids (DOT3, and DOT4).
My circs are a little different and a bit more research needed to see how clean the lines etc need to be if I change back to organic or whether I should stick with the DOT5 (which is probably fine).
Because I was busy and I paid guys to change my lines - In the light of MP's doubts I am mighty pissed off now that they went for DOT5 without asking-I would have preferred standard.
It gets worse in that the rear hose did not fit-and I have to do it, so at the mo I have DOT5 on the front and DOT4 on the rear. One or other is going to change. 
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Post US election quote "They've kicked our backsides, we've got to lick our wounds..." )
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