FastBikerBoy
old hand
Reged: 08/11/2006
Posts: 1180
Loc: Norfolk, UK - Police State
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Sad news yesterday from Snetterton and a reminder of what can happen if it all goes wrong. 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/7537495.stm
Commiserations to the riders family.
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FBB
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makka
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 13/05/2007
Posts: 2554
Loc: Jungle, Near Byron Bay, Austra...
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You can bet your ass plenty of retards will try and ban track days now.
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makka
drinking heavily
it's the only solution
Well, maybe meditation helps too.
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FastBikerBoy
old hand
Reged: 08/11/2006
Posts: 1180
Loc: Norfolk, UK - Police State
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Strange, exactly what I was thinking. The local news did point out though that this was the first death at Snetterton in 5 years.
Scant consolation for the poor rider this time, but an indication of how much safer the track environment is.
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FBB
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KwH
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1714
Loc: Carmarthen, Dyfed
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Tragic. It's worth noting isn't it that with the improvements in kit and particularly circuit safety these days, at 'proper' modern tracks at least, the vast majority of motorcycle fatalities in racing and at trackdays are when riders and bikes tangle with each other. And arguably, that shouldn't really happen at trackdays in the same way it does in a race.
If this was just a terrible accident then it's merely a reminder that even in the safe environment of a safe racetrack, riding a motorcycle at speed is a properly dangerous activity and deserves respect.
If it was somebody deliberately riding like a twat (we've all seen it on trackdays) and skittling two other riders by trying to overtake one of them somewhere that there wasn't actually space to do so, then I'm not sure what to think, or what if anything I'd like done about it.
I'm all in favour of trackday twats being told to wind their neck in, and being sent home early if they don't. But do I really want somebody charged with manslaughter after fucking up on a trackday and accidentally killing somebody? Or is it (very) big boys 'Mad Max beyond the Thunderdome' rules?
I don't think it can be, I don't think that would be right or just that you could get away with causing somebody elses death on a trackday. But if somebody can be charged with manslaughter for getting the red mist and punting somebody off with fatal consequences, that would mean that somebody could get sued. And that would mean huge insurance premiums and potentially the end of trackdays as we know them...
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Ken Haylock
http://www.cix.co.uk/~kwh
"Ride what you like, how you like, as often as you like; but always take responsibilty for your actions." - Anonymous Zen Guru
"Obviously all I'll care about is if it's good for wheelies (i.e. fluffs up my meagre skills), and what free gift they give on the launch." - Anonymous Moto-Journalism Guru
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idiotsavant
addict
Reged: 01/11/2006
Posts: 513
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Far be it for me to indulge in idle speculation but given the scant details, I'd guess that someone highsided coming out of the Russell's chicane and was collected/hit by a following bike. Bad luck. Wrong place, wrong time, etc.
We all know the risks - and we all chose to put them to the back of our minds when we ride.
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Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.
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xxrider
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/11/2006
Posts: 2267
Loc: Somewhere over the rainbow.......
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Quote:
We all know the risks - and we all chose to put them to the back of our minds when we ride.
Yep, IS is spot on.
We are sometimes (some more than others, I'm sure) guilty of forgetting that we are taking a risk every time we swing a leg over the bike. Even on a track.
I suspect that those with this thought nearer the front of the brain when making those all important, split second decisions are the ones who will live longest to tell the tale........
But hey, even the safest, most defensive riders can come a cropper. And that's a sobering thought.
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The simplest questions are the most profound. Where were you born? Where is your home? Where are you going? What are you doing? Think about these once in a while and watch your answers change.
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 5379
Loc: Mind your own business
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The one solid fact I have read is that a tragedy has occurred, it's pointless Theorising as to what happend or weather the guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time the simple fact is the someone who was alive a few days ago isn't and someone is mouring a Father/Son/Lover.
I find it sad that anybody would want to do anything other than pay their respects and leave it at that.
Yea we all take risks thats life, better than sitting on your arse judging others choices I say.
I've got a trackday on Thursday Fucked if I'm going to let this play on my mind if I go out and it is I'll pack up and go home, the one thing I don't do when I'm riding is to consider crashing if I do I can be pretty sure I will, the only thing I want on my mind when riding is where I'm about to be, what I'm about to do, what my bike is doing and what's going on around me.
Condolences to his family and RIP.
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immy
old hand
Reged: 09/11/2006
Posts: 961
Loc: Planet Zok
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Quote:
The one solid fact I have read is that a tragedy has occurred, it's pointless Theorising as to what happend or weather the guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time the simple fact is the someone who was alive a few days ago isn't and someone is mouring a Father/Son/Lover.
I find it sad that anybody would want to do anything other than pay their respects and leave it at that.
Yea we all take risks thats life, better than sitting on your arse judging others choices I say.
I've got a trackday on Thursday Fucked if I'm going to let this play on my mind if I go out and it is I'll pack up and go home, the one thing I don't do when I'm riding is to consider crashing if I do I can be pretty sure I will, the only thing I want on my mind when riding is where I'm about to be, what I'm about to do, what my bike is doing and what's going on around me.
Condolences to his family and RIP.
yup 
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Its not fate itself that is so frightening
Its the expectation of fate that frightens
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KwH
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1714
Loc: Carmarthen, Dyfed
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Yes, on reflection that's a fair call.
Condolences to the loved ones of the poor guy who was killed.
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Ken Haylock
http://www.cix.co.uk/~kwh
"Ride what you like, how you like, as often as you like; but always take responsibilty for your actions." - Anonymous Zen Guru
"Obviously all I'll care about is if it's good for wheelies (i.e. fluffs up my meagre skills), and what free gift they give on the launch." - Anonymous Moto-Journalism Guru
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xxrider
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/11/2006
Posts: 2267
Loc: Somewhere over the rainbow.......
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Hey, I'm not judgeing the guy - in all likelihood he was just a normal chap, like any one of us, who's luck shit on him that day.
If there can be any consolation to family and friends left behind, it can only be that perhaps ONE gung-ho track (or road) rider thinks twice before a reckless manoeuvre, and DOESN'T end his own - or someone else's - life as a result.
Surely that would be a positive that might be taken from an otherwise tragic event?
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The simplest questions are the most profound. Where were you born? Where is your home? Where are you going? What are you doing? Think about these once in a while and watch your answers change.
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shinybusa
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/01/2008
Posts: 1608
Loc: away with the fairies..
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Nobody wants to hear news like this....but it's a fact of life , riding a bike is risky and sometimes it hurts...
Like the rest of us , the person involved is probably a father / son/ brother/ uncle...to people who love him dearly.
It could happen to every one of us.
Condolences to the family.
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Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day....
Teach a man to fish.........................................and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day!!
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 5379
Loc: Mind your own business
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Wasn't aimed at you XX.
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xxrider
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/11/2006
Posts: 2267
Loc: Somewhere over the rainbow.......
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Fairy snuff......
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The simplest questions are the most profound. Where were you born? Where is your home? Where are you going? What are you doing? Think about these once in a while and watch your answers change.
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immy
old hand
Reged: 09/11/2006
Posts: 961
Loc: Planet Zok
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Quote:
Hey, I'm not judgeing the guy - in all likelihood he was just a normal chap, like any one of us, who's luck shit on him that day.
If there can be any consolation to family and friends left behind, it can only be that perhaps ONE gung-ho track (or road) rider thinks twice before a reckless manoeuvre, and DOESN'T end his own - or someone else's - life as a result.
Surely that would be a positive that might be taken from an otherwise tragic event?
The actual filmed report has the lady from the Beeb and I think an spokesman for the track and another rider(not involved)The spokesman has apparently remarked that 2 riders were exiting a bend when a third one came round and hit them from behind.Two suffered injuries and one died.its not clear which was which naturally. The reason Im telling this is that it can be interperted by those members of the nanny state to call into question peoples abilities on trackdays and introduce same stupid legislation to rein in such activites(and yes despite the fact that these tragic events are so rare not that that helps his family) In my time I cannot recall similar tragic accidents at either Brands or Donners where I did all mine(excluding full racing events that is)
The problem is that there will of course be a full invesigation. I just hope it will indicate nothing more than just that-an accident with no one to blame. Recriminations never ever bought the dead back to life
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Its not fate itself that is so frightening
Its the expectation of fate that frightens
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KwH
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1714
Loc: Carmarthen, Dyfed
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Quote:
The problem is that there will of course be a full invesigation. I just hope it will indicate nothing more than just that-an accident with no one to blame. Recriminations never ever bought the dead back to life
There is always somebody 'to blame' if you look hard enough and decide before you start that a crime has been committed, you just have to decide who is guilty of it. If somebody makes a mistake and somebody else is unlucky and all the dice roll badly then terrible things happen. If they investigate it the way 'road traffic collisions' are investigated these days, then whoever made the biggest mistake that contributed to the tragedy will be deemed 'guilty'.
Hopefully that won't happen, and in the absence of even a hint of genuine recklessness the whole thing will be put treated as a tragic accident. I'd hate to see somebody crucified for a genuine mistake that had tragic consequences, almost as much as I'd hate to see nanny state intervention telling me what risks I can and can't choose to take.
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Ken Haylock
http://www.cix.co.uk/~kwh
"Ride what you like, how you like, as often as you like; but always take responsibilty for your actions." - Anonymous Zen Guru
"Obviously all I'll care about is if it's good for wheelies (i.e. fluffs up my meagre skills), and what free gift they give on the launch." - Anonymous Moto-Journalism Guru
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FastBikerBoy
old hand
Reged: 08/11/2006
Posts: 1180
Loc: Norfolk, UK - Police State
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On a slightly different tack, it just goes to show how the media like to 'hype' up any story. Both local TV reports here mentioned 'speeds of up to 160mph', neither of them mentioned the accident happened at the slowest part of the circuit.
Was that intentional or just a genuine oversight I wonder? Ending a report with 'track days continue for now' is a worrying statement as well, or am I being paranoid?
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FBB
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scratch
stranger
Reged: 25/03/2008
Posts: 7
Loc: Lancashire
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a very sad time,Craig will be a massive loss to the racing world,RideIP mate.
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Biggles
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 2206
Loc: I am over here!
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Quote:
Far be it for me to indulge in idle speculation but given the scant details, I'd guess that someone highsided coming out of the Russell's chicane and was collected/hit by a following bike. Bad luck. Wrong place, wrong time, etc.
We all know the risks - and we all chose to put them to the back of our minds when we ride.
I met a guy today who said he was there (one of the tech checkers). He said there were three guys, the one in front was very experienced track day rider followed by two guys who race, who were keen to overtake him-they were all in the advanced group.
The lead guy missed a gear (3 to 4) and the the second guy who was pretty close ran into the back of the lead guy. The lead guy was thrown over the top of the second rider directly into the path of the third.
Sounds to me like a pretty rare and very unfortunate chain of events that are very unlikely to be repeated.
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Post US election quote "They've kicked our backsides, we've got to lick our wounds..." )
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KwH
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1714
Loc: Carmarthen, Dyfed
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Quote:
The lead guy missed a gear (3 to 4) and the the second guy who was pretty close ran into the back of the lead guy. The lead guy was thrown over the top of the second rider directly into the path of the third.
That has 'terrible, tragic, unavoidable accident' written all over it, doesn't it.
If we are seasrching for a lesson as riders, perhaps it is that there is a case for avoiding close bunching on a trackday, where you aren't actually racing against anybody and therefore have no reason to be in their slipstream 0.1 seconds behind them. This pair of horrendous tragedies in the past week demonstrates yet again that this is the most dangerous aspect of track riding on decent modern tracks these days, and that the risk is equally real whether you are a future world champion fighting for the lead of a top level race or a bloke having fun in the novice group at a trackday...
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Ken Haylock
http://www.cix.co.uk/~kwh
"Ride what you like, how you like, as often as you like; but always take responsibilty for your actions." - Anonymous Zen Guru
"Obviously all I'll care about is if it's good for wheelies (i.e. fluffs up my meagre skills), and what free gift they give on the launch." - Anonymous Moto-Journalism Guru
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 5379
Loc: Mind your own business
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Quote:
Quote:
The lead guy missed a gear (3 to 4) and the the second guy who was pretty close ran into the back of the lead guy. The lead guy was thrown over the top of the second rider directly into the path of the third.
That has 'terrible, tragic, unavoidable accident' written all over it, doesn't it.
If we are seasrching for a lesson as riders, perhaps it is that there is a case for avoiding close bunching on a trackday, where you aren't actually racing against anybody and therefore have no reason to be in their slipstream 0.1 seconds behind them. This pair of horrendous tragedies in the past week demonstrates yet again that this is the most dangerous aspect of track riding on decent modern tracks these days, and that the risk is equally real whether you are a future world champion fighting for the lead of a top level race or a bloke having fun in the novice group at a trackday...
That's a fine sentiment Ken the part the problem we have is the massive difference in speeds in the same group some times you can't help but come up on other riders at a pace I did a trackday at Brands today and I found the speeds I was catching bikes mid corner was concerning and distracting, As for this accident the guy missed a gear shit Even Rossi misses gears. Believe me when you are mid corner and committed and someone stops in front of you there is fuck all you can do.
This group I caught and had to pass at least three time every session and they would all bunch up like a gaggle of geese I'm not one to criticize any-body's riding but it was getting very busy at times and I was riding well within my comfort zone as this was my first trackday since last Sept. At the start of the day i put a couple of what considered close move on people but only because there was such a difference in speeds it would have been dangerous not to, I did go find the riders and apologize for my passes altho control let them pass.
It's a trackday Ken we all try to leave room but accidents are sometimes unavoidable, I will always do my best to leave 5-6 feet when passing or letting them go when a faster rider comes past.
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