thetony
member
Reged: 12/02/2009
Posts: 164
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My '02 Mille's front brakes (pad per piston type brembo)are binding badly (I've crashed coz of this,First time i noticed problem the front locked up on a slippery road and put me on my arse,ouch,now rest of bike sorted)they were filthy as i use the bike every day. After a complete strip down where i'd found some crap behind the dust seals and a little in the fluid seal of 2 r/h pots i've put it all together and the problem persists! No warp on discs, Pads/pistons ok, Bled to perfection. pistons aint retracting enough so after a very short ride the disc expands and locks up wheel-Gotta be old seals? Brembo don't sell seal kits anymore(!?wtf) and i hear they've got importer probs. Dealers so far have been great but come to same dead end-buy new caliper @ £250. PLEASE HELP, We're talking about some bloody o-rings here! Why such an issue? I feel like torching the fucking thing at the moment. Losing faith in Aprilia, not what they need with rsv4 coming soon - I want one but even the dealers say they are in limbo with the factory. Again: HELP
Edited by thetony (12/02/2009 17:53)
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xxrider
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/11/2006
Posts: 2604
Loc: Somewhere over the rainbow.......
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Clutching at straws, this, but might save a few quid......
I had the same problem on a Kawasaki many years ago. Front brakes binding so badly that bike was unrideable. I'd manage about half a mile, then the constant friction between pads and disc would cause so much heat that the whole lot would bind SOLID, and the bike would be immovable.
Strip down & clean - no good.
Complete seals and O-ring set - no good.
New discs, new pistons, new calipers - no good.
Several hundred pounds later, I found a peice of tarmac wedged between the brake lever and the master cyclinder piston. Removed, and all OK.
Doh!
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Remember - there are people in the world who are only alive because it's illegal to shoot them.
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thetony
member
Reged: 12/02/2009
Posts: 164
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Yer dead right about 'locking solid' and i will look again at the lever end of the system, although i've had to change the lever since the crash and it seemed spotless in there. Thanks for reply. I've been thinking (getting more pissed off) about the bremo situation though - how the hell can they just stop selling the seal kit!? As it is made of rubber parts, which have a shelf life so therefore are considered perishable. This makes the calliper assembly now a (very expensive)disposable unit unneccessarily. Consumers are not expected to get a new fridge/freezer just because the milk went sour (dramatic generalisation i know)so I am gonna have to start barking up brembos tree. A dealer tells me brembo america nearly went bust when they were held accountabe for selling a seal kit to a guy who fitted it wrongly and was in a bad accident, because of this they have been withdrawn! WTF indeed! Bloody american system fucking it up for the rest of us again. I'd sign a disclaimer happily for a set. Similarly it should be made clear that a brembo system is now technically a sealed unit and throwaway item as such...Any one with a Ducati/Aprilia/BMW/Loads of apparently high end bike TAKE NOTE as this will affect you all at some stage. What a pisser.
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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Admittedly a long time back, I stripped the brakes on LC350.
The seals were shot. Replacement seals cost £20+ (!!), but wierdly a set of beautifully machines pistons (that included the seals) were just £14.50. Yamaha have a sense of humour in their pricing sometimes.
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Quote me as saying I was miss-quoted.
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thetony
member
Reged: 12/02/2009
Posts: 164
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Here's the latest: Brembo website directed me to AP (the guys that make all that lovely kit and are OWNED by brembo but have nowt to do with them)then to Grand Prix Raceware (not brembos distributer anymore) whom i'd been told should be able to have my calipers reconditioned by brembo as the seals CAN'T be fitted by the general public! - I'm a fucking aircraft mechanic, to put this in some perspective. Eventually spoke to the right distributer who tells me i COULD buy the seal kit,possibly, but only a minimum order of A BLOODY HUNDRED of them! Once again W T F ! Not a realistic option, funnily enough 2 new calipers would be cheaper. He said bugger all about the fantastic reconditioning service.
In Short-the world has now gone mad. Rant over.
Anyway what i'm asking now is... How much free play should there be on the lever? There aint any on mine and someone tells me there should be a little and this could cause the drag. I think the span adjuster is all i've got, so how do you add free play? How much do brake pistons retract (as in mine probably aren't)? What size gap is there meant to be between disc and pad when healthy?
Thanks in advance folks for letting me pick yer collective brains. These forum thingys are well helpful. I'm off to check ebay again just in case it's not the lever end that is the culprit...T
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DivingDog
stranger
Reged: 26/03/2010
Posts: 4
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Quote:
Eventually spoke to the right distributer who tells me i COULD buy the seal kit,possibly, but only a minimum order of A BLOODY HUNDRED of them!
Hi,
I'm having a similar issue with my Benelli Tornado, which has the same Brembos as the RSV. Perhaps between the Aprilia and Benelli forums we could make a bulk order and save ourselves a heap of money (and pain!) in the long run?
How much was the distributor quoting per Seal kit? Could you give me the contact details? I'm sure there'd be plenty of interest in buying spare seal kits if it means not having to shell out for new calipers.
cheers,
Dom
www.benelliforum.com
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thetony
member
Reged: 12/02/2009
Posts: 164
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Hey Dom. Well done you, for perhaps having the drive and foresight to organise a bulk buy to save future woes for shed loads of people. Far better than the attitude of the manufacturers involved! I doff my virtual cap in your direction...
I have parted company with the RSV. So the eventual need for a simple seal kit is no longer the worry it was... but here's a quick run through of my solution, hope it's of some use. I don't have the actual contact numbers anymore, they were scribbled on an old biketrader in the garage and are long gone, unfortunately. I first spoke to several bike dealers (of any brand using my brembo system) to pick their brains. Ended up in touch with GPR (grand prix racewear?)-these dudes really knew their stuff but had parted company with brembo, i'm sure it was them that somehow hooked me up with AP Lockheed... who i think you need to speak to, to take this further.
In the end, my braking nightmare was put down to a combination of two factors: filthy fucking calipers (with dirt through the dust seals and a little under the fluid seals)causing the initial issue and crash due to siezure. Then the application of aftermarket lever (post crash)caused the headaches after that. I cleaned and inspected the seals and caliper internals in a crazy, surgical, meticulous fashion and deemed them healthy... it was a poor quality bloody lever that was buggering things up- the brass coloured oe brembo pin, which goes from mastercylinder to the female-machined 'blind hole' on the lever casting... the overall length was too much, so was putting pressure on the matercylinder and dragging the brakes. I sorted it myself by drilling into the (too shallow)lever part a few tho' at a time until i got it perfect (it was about 5mm out! Tossers).
Obviously i'd have put a new seal kit in had one bloody existed! In my mechanical engineering experience (Aircraft) there would be zero circumstances where i'd re-use a ten penny seal in a situation like that.
Hope this helps a bit. If yer still stuck, let me know here if there's anything else I can do and i'll PM you my number. To help you sort your weird looking bike out! lol
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DivingDog
stranger
Reged: 26/03/2010
Posts: 4
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Thanks for the info - my Tornado is with a dealer right now and they're as frustrated as me about the situation as they have 2 RSVs with the same issue. They are currently in contact with Brembo themselves so will wait and see if they can sort something out.
I also found a post on the Aprilia forum suggesting that Brembo were still supplying to KTM dealers, so that might be an option:
[see http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183940]
As soon as I have a definite solution I'll post again - it's outrageous a major supplier like Brembo could just leave it's supposedly valued customers in the sh*t like this...!
Us Benelli guys are quite fond of group buys cos parts are hard to come by and typically expensive (even though the bikes themselves are relatively cheap now) so that would be a good option if we could actually source the kits from somewhere, and splitting the order with the Aprilia guys would make it more viable.
cheers,
Dom
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thetony
member
Reged: 12/02/2009
Posts: 164
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Outstanding! The aprilia forum stuff regarding the KTM part is/was exactly what i'd have been after! Perfect info... that forum really is the business. If i were you, i'd grab a couple of the 34mm ktm kits and fire them in. it's a doddle, but you will need a torx bit (1/4 inch) to split the caliper. The most likey reason for ruining seals (other than allowing them to get seriously clogged up) is using inapropriate cleaner (causing them to either erode or swell). Rubber is very particular about what lubes and chemicals it comes in contact with, so be clever about what you clean up with. Age deterioration shouldn't be a factor with your set.
After inspecting the actual pistons, make the call on switching them for the relevant ktm part too? It sounds like they're pretty reasonable and if you intend on holding onto the bike for a bit, would be a wise move... the piston material is really easily marked/scored and if the've been in and out a few times by a less than sensitive mech, they might need binned.
It is an odd one -usually weeping or leaking is the problem with a hydraulic system. In the brembo case it is stiction due to the tolerances being sooo tight. Ideal in a pristene race environment, where there is a correct lube/fluid for every eventuality, less so in the real world where there is road scum, a couple of general use aerosol cans and less frequent stripdowns. Ohlins forks have the same probs on road bikes, they fuckin eat seals like a hungry Inuit and leak more than yer daddie's johnny! Ahh the price people pay for exotica...
Good luck with the tornado mate. Fire some decent pics up and let us know what the craic is owning a tornado, I/most folk know bugger all about them. Welcome to the forum... I pop up once in a while if there's something interesting happening.
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DivingDog
stranger
Reged: 26/03/2010
Posts: 4
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Quote:
... they fuckin eat seals like a hungry Inuit and leak more than yer daddie's johnny! Ahh the price people pay for exotica...
 priceless!
The Tornado is a bloomin stunner, imho: Tornado pics...
I've had mine only 18 months but absolutely love it. Not just a pretty face either - the engine is a beaut: an oversquare triple which pulls strong and smooth all the way and makes a gorgeous noise... It's outpaced by the latest gear on the track no doubt but makes a great fast A-road bike, and always turns heads 
They're pretty cheap now too and much more interesting than most bikes you could buy for the same money (£4k will get you a clean low-mileage example).
And no - I'm not selling!! 
cheers,
Dom
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thetony
member
Reged: 12/02/2009
Posts: 164
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Stunning pics. Top job! Although it's pretty obvious you ain't gotta worry about gunged up brake filth! I'd eat my dinner off the BACK of yer sprocket... Very tidy example sir.
Get the KTM stuff fired in, pronto, then go get some flies splattered on the thing!
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DivingDog
stranger
Reged: 26/03/2010
Posts: 4
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Quote:
Stunning pics. Top job! Although it's pretty obvious you ain't gotta worry about gunged up brake filth! I'd eat my dinner off the BACK of yer sprocket... Very tidy example sir.
Get the KTM stuff fired in, pronto, then go get some flies splattered on the thing!
I should explain - I've bought a second Tornado (an ex-club racer) to use as a track bike. Mainly because bike number 1 is so clean I didn't want to risk binning it - parts are getting rare and expensive! It does get regularly covered in flies and sh*t though - these pics were taken after the spring-clean I gave it the other day. It won't be this clean again for a while!!
As you can see number 2 is a bit beat up but does have Maxton suspension and dymag wheels and will be ready to go once this sticking front brake is sorted out. Fingers crossed...!!
cheers,
Dom
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