DGW
newbie
Reged: 24/02/2008
Posts: 32
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Need a torque wrench, anyone got any recommendations? How much will I need to spend to get something decent?
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 6701
Loc: Mind your own business
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I've used Norbar and snapon in the past both good except the Snapon one was silly money.
I currently have a cheap draper one ATM cost me £35 for a bike you should be fine with a 3/8 drive one and £50 should ge t a decent Norbar and a little more for a Teng tools one.
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Say what you think and think what you say.
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ninja_niner
journeyman
Reged: 16/01/2009
Posts: 50
Loc: Poo Creek, looking for paddle....
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I've recently bought the Halfords Professional 3/8" 6-45lb.ft wrench (£49.99 online) & a 3/8-1/2" adaptor (£3.69 online) & easy to get your hands on in-store or by post. Nice clear guage, clear click on reaching setting... No complaints at my end... 
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It's not the speed, it's the idiot coming the other way that gets ya!
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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Me too. I have two Halfords torque wrenches (one long one short) both came with certs of calibration. Had no probs with them, I have checked them once in the three years I have had them and they remained accurate.
They are perfectly adequate for my amateur needs.
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DGW
newbie
Reged: 24/02/2008
Posts: 32
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OK, thanks all, think I'll go have a look at the Halfords one
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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Just a thought...
Also checkout the *range* of settings you require-that is why I have two. IE the rear wheel axle nut as opposed to titanium disc brake bolts.
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DGW
newbie
Reged: 24/02/2008
Posts: 32
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Yep, having had a quick look on the web I figured I'd probably need 2 - tho i'll start with one for the rear axle and learn how to adjust the chain first - i presume everyone adjusts their own chain rather than taking it to a dealer to do?
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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For sure check your own chain tension yourself rather than dealer. It is a good idea to do it regularly.
Stick to the book recommendations on tension, normally about 25mm of slack in the middle (where it moves up and down most) of the chain. Don't over tighten as this puts strain on the gearbox and wheel bearings.
Before you start the first time, it would not be a bad idea to check the chain tension (by turning the wheel round) in three places. This is to see if there are any tight or slack points, these are caused by uneven sprocket wear and sometimes bearing wear.
A little uneveness is acceptable (then you adjust to the mid point between slack and tight), but a lot would need treatment. Don't wish to raise the worry level, just a good idea to keep an eye on - especially on older bikes.
If you have a rear drum brake (rather than disc brake), also check the brake adjustment afterwards as moving the rear wheel back effects it. If you then adjust the brake, remember to then check the brake light adjustment too.
Of course I have no idea how old or what your bike is
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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Hmmm. I am going to take my own advice and do my chain now as it isn't pi55ing down.
If you get into trouble, just ask the Forum and someone will give you a hand. Best of luck.
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Quote me as saying I was miss-quoted.
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xxrider
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/11/2006
Posts: 2604
Loc: Somewhere over the rainbow.......
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I, too, highly recommend the Halfords Pro jobbie.
Good for the price, never let me down.
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Remember - there are people in the world who are only alive because it's illegal to shoot them.
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brett54
journeyman
Reged: 24/03/2009
Posts: 60
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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1/2" drives are too big for work on bikes.
3/8" drive is a good all rounder.
1/4" drive if you want to splurge.
I like Micrometer types with a nice 'click' thru the handle.
Remember that you have to calibrate them also.
Theoretically you can do this at home with a foot long bar and hang some weights off it.
Also, torque settings are for CLEAN and GREASED threads.
GREASE or lube the threads as needed.
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Suzuki GSXR-750-k5
Yamaha TTR-250
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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You sure about greased threads?
Must say I thought that was *not* the case-often the Japs generally do not grease bolts and the torque is based on that. Theory being the bolt slips in too easily and overtightens. 
Some bolts they actively reccommend you do not grease them, on footpeg mounts for instance which should just have a dab of loktite.
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DGW
newbie
Reged: 24/02/2008
Posts: 32
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Never thought about greased / oiled threads making a difference - but i guess it could. I've put quite a lot of ACF-50 all over the bike including nuts / bolts etc. which might act as a lubricant?
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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We have one or two engineers on the Forum, I hope they might shed some sensible light on this- I was told this the effect by a helicopter engineer years ago.
Seeing as the majority don't use a torque wrench at all, I would not worry too much about the increase in torque and stretch on the bolt, a bit of grease will give.
After I learnt about the effect, I just became more careful about what I lubed and how much. AF50 on bolts has to be a good idea to stop steel bolts from rusting in aluminium casings. In critical areas like on the titanium bolts that hold on my brake calipers, I use a tiny amount AF50 on the screw end only. I take extra care with these as the torque settings on them are fairly low and the bolts themselves are delicate, plus the prospect of not being able to get them out again or them sheering is not at all pleasant.
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 6701
Loc: Mind your own business
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I've always been of the understanding clean threads.
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Say what you think and think what you say.
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BigHam
veteran
Reged: 12/11/2006
Posts: 1420
Loc: Letchworth, UK
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I grease some stuff, but not torque sensitive stuff, especially not the rear axle nut.(Not that it's really torque sensitive in any case)
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Where there's a will and Gaffa Tape there's a way!
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thetony
member
Reged: 12/02/2009
Posts: 164
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Tools today, By thetony...
The reccomendations given above are all spot on. Halfords professional series are fantastic quality and great value, they have (excluding torque wrenches I believe) a lifetime guarantee and well managed warranty programme. Snap on became famous for their guarantee...In my experience people are having to use this warranty far more often nowadays. I am not alone in my suspicion that the quality is not what it once was but the price is still crazy - I love them more for the ergonomics, range, constant evolution and fact that you have a much larger penis if you have snap-on. It is a snob thing and you would be amazed how many guys in UK aviation use Halford Pro's. The guarantee is what it is all about too, although it is highly unlikely you'll ever wear out a tool working on your own bikes - if you are doing it right!? My only negative comment on halfords is their lack of A/F (imperial to the layman) sizes and the fact their shops are full of little wankers ruining their cars by shopping for tacky shite there...Also BEWARE their ICE installation team if you value your interior!
I digress, Torque wrenches: All I have to add is, treat it like your baby- don't be dropping the thing. Gently does it and ALWAYS reset after use, the spring inside stretches and fucks up calibration way more than little knocks.
ONLY TORQUE ONCE. Click, then bloody leave it alone! It is sooo easy to torque load a bolt by repeatedly double clicking you are only stressing the poor little fastener out! If you suspect you have stretched a bolt to death over the years, replace it. You will become skilled with the 'easy out' soon enough if you don't learn some finesse with your ratchet/spanner! Good tip is also to guage the colour of your knuckles/under finger nails when removing a part and replacing it (muscle memory works, these are good indicators).
I go by dry threads, there will always be a torque margin for any application and this should allow for a little WD or copper slip. Common sense and a good manual should take the stress out ot torque paranoia, awareness of materials (remember Ti to Ti binding ain't pretty and bimetallic reaction/cross contaminatoin is essential to avoid...erm, HONDA) and heat sensitive areas should also be considered and avoid assumption - who torqued it last? Possibly a fuckwit! You could spend a fortune on a good store of specific lubes, I do recommend building up a good stash, but please be aware of contaminating your lubes/various greases and how old they are...Throw that old shit out, the miners were on strike when you bought that!
Yes this may sound anal, but good practice nevertheless. I await the day when I'm inevitably asked to explain lockwiring principals. That will be a complicated bastard...
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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now about lock wiring principles...
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 6701
Loc: Mind your own business
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Easy like a bird init. Drill it, poke it, twist it around a bit and Bob's yer uncle and your father if your a hillbilly.
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Say what you think and think what you say.
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brett54
journeyman
Reged: 24/03/2009
Posts: 60
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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Quote:
We have one or two engineers on the Forum, I hope they might shed some sensible light on this- I was told this the effect by a helicopter engineer years ago.
Seeing as the majority don't use a torque wrench at all, I would not worry too much about the increase in torque and stretch on the bolt, a bit of grease will give.
After I learnt about the effect, I just became more careful about what I lubed and how much. AF50 on bolts has to be a good idea to stop steel bolts from rusting in aluminium casings. In critical areas like on the titanium bolts that hold on my brake calipers, I use a tiny amount AF50 on the screw end only. I take extra care with these as the torque settings on them are fairly low and the bolts themselves are delicate, plus the prospect of not being able to get them out again or them sheering is not at all pleasant.
Ajax Fastners Engineering Papers
Have a look at Tightening Methods,
"... it is evident that typically,
around 10% of the effort is going to the stretch of the
bolt and compression of the joint, 40% of effort is
going to overcome thread friction and the remaining
50% is going to overcome bearing friction. This
implies that approximately 90% effort is going to
overcome friction while only 10% is doing useful
work.
There are a large number of parameters such as,
surface finish, hardness, lubricants, among other
things, that can alter the friction coefficients
associated with a bolted joint. A 10% reduction in
friction contribution (from 90% - 81%) will increase
the bolt stretch-joint compression contribution from
10% - 19% which is a 90% increase. ..."
Bottom line, friction in the thread and head are quite big and small decreases allow for a huge improvement in the bolt tension (which is what we want, tension in the bolt).
Concerning is how ineffectual a torque wrench is.
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Suzuki GSXR-750-k5
Yamaha TTR-250
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