chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 6701
Loc: Mind your own business
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An article from the Times Online, Average speed cameras EH!
Quote:
Road speed limit cut to 50mph Steven Swinford
THE government is to cut the national speed limit from 60mph to 50mph on most of Britain’s roads, enforced by a new generation of average speed cameras.
The reduction, to be imposed as early as next year, will affect two thirds of the country’s road network. Drivers will still be able to reach 70mph on motorways and dual carriageways and 60mph on the safest A roads.
Jim Fitzpatrick, the roads minister, defended the plan, which will be the most dramatic cut since 1978, when the national speed limit was reduced from 70mph to 60mph.
“There will be some in the driving lobby who think this is a further attack and a restriction on people’s freedom,” he said. “But when you compare that to the fact we are killing 3,000 people a year on our roads, it would be irresponsible not to do something about it. I’m sure that the vast majority of motorists would support the proposals.”
New research by the Department for Transport has found that reducing the speed limit could save 200-250 lives a year and also reduce carbon emissions.
Britain’s roads were the safest in the world until 2001, relative to its population, but have since fallen into sixth place behind countries such as the Netherlands, Sweden and Norway. Some challenge that statistic because of the disparity of the countries’ sizes.
The new 50mph limit is intended to reduce the high death toll on rural roads, where, in 2007, 69% of car crash fatalities took place. It will apply to single carriage A, B and C roads. Local authorities will have the power to raise the limit to 60mph on the safest roads, but will have to justify it.
Ministers plan to use average speed cameras, which monitor speeds over distances of up to six miles, to help enforce the new limit. The cameras have already been installed at 43 locations. The Home Office is expected to approve their wider use later this year.
Speed Check Services, the company behind the cameras, claims the number of deaths or serious injuries at its sites has fallen on average by 60%.
Fitzpatrick said: “If you look at the figures on rural roads, there are disproportionately more people dying there than on any other roads. The nature of some rural roads, with dips and bends and difficult conditions, means that the 60mph limit is not enough.”
The 50mph proposal will be laid out in a consultation document to be published in the early summer.
Edmund King, president of the AA, warned that the move could alienate some motorists. Last year the AA asked 17,481 motorists if the limit on single carriageway roads should be cut to 50mph. Nearly half backed the move but 38% opposed it.
He said: “There are quitea few single carriageway rural roads that are straight and adequately wide, where 60mph – in the right conditions, driving sensibly — is not a problem.
“The danger of the blanket approach is: are you going to then reduce speed limits just for the sake of it where you don’t need to? That’s where you lose the respect or the support of the motorist.
“We all know some rural roads where the 60mph limit is ridiculous, although there are equally others where it suits. So it is a case of getting that balance.”
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Say what you think and think what you say.
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FastBikerBoy
veteran
Reged: 08/11/2006
Posts: 1479
Loc: Norfolk, UK - Police State
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Latest leg of the introduction of the police state. I guess they'll fit a few more cameras in as well for good measure.
Soon we'll all be confined to our homes unless we can justify the need to go out, just in case we hurt ourselves.
If comments from some people who I consider quite reserved and conservative (attitude not political) is anything to go by, the fucking revolution is coming, not soon enough as far as I'm concerned.
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FBB
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Bananabrutality
stranger
Reged: 17/09/2007
Posts: 3
Loc: Surrey
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and like most of the ones i've seen , i trust they'll be forward facing...so back to reg numbers on the front of bikes then... no? oh.ok wont worry me too much then as i hardly ever see a live copper on the roads these days.
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R1fletch
newbie
Reged: 02/04/2008
Posts: 33
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I read this to.The article I read said a blanket speed of 50 miles an hour,a new generation of average speed cameras,and speed cameras with out warning signs(warwickshire)with other councils watching closely.it realy fucks me of this is supposed to be a free country,is it fuck it's big brother to the max.I am not a fucking robot and will not be treated like one.Since I hardly ever see a policeman when i'm out and about I am seriously considering rideing with out a plate how are theyr'e shitty cameras going to catch me then.
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monkiboi
old hand
Reged: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1080
Loc: Tattooine
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Fuck me, how times change. Just recently, wasn't there a county that decided to remove their speed cameras because they decided they cause more accidents than solve?Time to get rid of the plate on the bike then 
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Zen teachings:
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me for the path is narrow. In fact, just piss off and leave me alone.
There are two excellent theories for arguing with women. Neither one works.
Edited by monkiboi (10/03/2009 08:24)
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immy
veteran
Reged: 09/11/2006
Posts: 1350
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I heard that these cams are already installed in and around the biker haunts of Derbyshire(Cat and Fiddle etc)-I wouldnt advocate removing the index plate as if you get a tug-the old"it fell off" excuse wont work. I have however come across some plates that are so very dirty in places that they cant be read-and a quck wipe with an apology seems to have worked 
In any event your not moving over here to do your riding-the roads are all mine 
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BigHam
veteran
Reged: 12/11/2006
Posts: 1420
Loc: Letchworth, UK
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There will just be more and more cases of people using clones plates.
The 50mph limit will do very little to decrease deaths in any case.
Reduce the limit to 50mph and people will either ignore it, or takes less care as they drive at 50.
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Where there's a will and Gaffa Tape there's a way!
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monkiboi
old hand
Reged: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1080
Loc: Tattooine
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It's only a tug if there are any cops around to see it. The way things are going there are less and less police around so the chances of getting caught are slim to none. I wouldn't do it anyway, I work opposite Cold Harbour, you probably know it.
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Zen teachings:
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me for the path is narrow. In fact, just piss off and leave me alone.
There are two excellent theories for arguing with women. Neither one works.
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immy
veteran
Reged: 09/11/2006
Posts: 1350
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Quote:
It's only a tug if there are any cops around to see it. The way things are going there are less and less police around so the chances of getting caught are slim to none. I wouldn't do it anyway, I work opposite Cold Harbour, you probably know it.
Ah-old Coldhabour So its still there then-thats where they keep the unmarked FireBlades so get that vidcam set up Monki-they will be coming out of hibernation soon( or
so Im told )
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monkiboi
old hand
Reged: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1080
Loc: Tattooine
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Mostly it's the Wombles I see coming and going. Usually when I'm on my way to work, they obviously finish their shift at 6am. Occassionally I may see the odd Volvo or BM. Got tugged once by a Pan for having a small plate, the guy pulled out onto the roundabout right behind me.
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Zen teachings:
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me for the path is narrow. In fact, just piss off and leave me alone.
There are two excellent theories for arguing with women. Neither one works.
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rsv_mark
enthusiast
Reged: 16/11/2006
Posts: 269
Loc: Leamington.....via Oulton Park
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Can't see it happening myself. General election next year and all that.....it will be sooooooo unpopular that it will loose votes.
As with all these things it will be a junior minister or civil servant shooting from the hip and grabbing headlines, sending the press into a tailspin and winding up the general public.
Bring back Sir Humphrey - at least you knew he didn't know what he was talking about.
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______________________________________________
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
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thetony
member
Reged: 12/02/2009
Posts: 164
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The A77 was the first (Pretty sure, based on memory of local press) major use of average speed cameras, I use it all the time. The '77 was infamous as a serious accident black 'spot' that runs from basically glasgow right down the west coast of scotland to Stranraer. It's a safer road since the cameras went up - fact.
There is also a much smaller police presence (good thing IMO, obviously) as the cars do play the game, terrified about their average speed. As we know, the cameras don't affect bikes as they capture the front of vehicles.
I don't know of ANYONE who has been caught by them, It has been discussed to death round my way and never has anyone piped in with a story of ANYBODY getting the dreaded letter...
The thing is, even in the car you can maintain a 'fair speed' as there are so many roundabouts, little towns, slow corners etc to drop the average speed right down- allowing plenty of scope to make progress WELL within the average permitted speed limit. Also to calculate: How do they work out 'safe acceleration/deceleration'? I dunno. Carol Vorderman would probably struggle!
As a scientific experiment- as soon as the mille is back on the road- I'll travel the (fantastic biking) road as if being followed by an examiner/boys in blue, with the onboard computer set to average speed and let you know my findings... To show the (I'll bet large) margin there is still to play with.
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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Quote:
Can't see it happening myself. General election next year and all that.....it will be sooooooo unpopular that it will loose votes.
As with all these things it will be a junior minister or civil servant shooting from the hip and grabbing headlines, sending the press into a tailspin and winding up the general public.
Bring back Sir Humphrey - at least you knew he didn't know what he was talking about.
I am trying to get as many folk as possible to talk to their MPs, of what ever flavour, about this and the general over sensitivity to speeding. They need to know why folk are voting, at the mo economy and global warming will sublimate any other issues.
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Quote me as saying I was miss-quoted.
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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Yes I agree over a long distance (say 150 miles) an average speed cam will not effect many people. Trouble it this will not be the case, as they have said they will be linked.
I now have an average speed indicator in my car and over a long journey (that includes 30's, 40's) you would have to drive *very fast* to get an average beyond 70mph, if that journey takes in chunks of london or other towns. So a single average over the whole distance would be okay but that is NOT how the system will work. It will check your average between many cams.
Naturally it ave speed cams will effect bikes *more* as our average speed is normaly higher as we do not get blocked as easily as cars and can stay at upper limits ( ) longer. Added to which you may find your self easily getting several tickets for an enthusiastic ride down a couple of clear A roads.
So average speed cams = very bad for bikers, not great for cars, superb for lorries and caravans.
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Quote me as saying I was miss-quoted.
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thetony
member
Reged: 12/02/2009
Posts: 164
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Local coppers (off duty) have added to the rumours that the cameras are seldom active due to technical issues, costs involved in processing/running/maintaining the 'vultures'. That basic location/design faults have been highlighted in the '77 project ie: the linkup is lane specific causing problems for them over dual carriageway sectors where a simple variation on lane used confuses the system. Sadly any/all teething probs will be ironed out for the next uber project...you are right that we sould be worried.
Someone is going to have a lot of head scratching to do to prefect the proccess, here's hoping they obviously never do or get the funds to make it happen. The basic problem of vehicle/rider identity will remain the largest thorn in their side for the forseeable future? Anonymous Black leathers and lid for everyone, I say. I'M SPARTACUS!
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makka
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 13/05/2007
Posts: 2866
Loc: Jungle, Near Byron Bay, Austra...
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But they are fixed and obvious.
We have some around here. Usually on roads that are "fun". As well as ridiculous 80km speed limits. Also very few pigs.
Killjoy Nation.
But all I do is go for it and then slow right down to about 40 for a minute on the last straight bit before the camera.
Locals and regular road users will always know where they are so they shouldn't interfere with our fun even if the front men are instructed/advised to vote them in.
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makka
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
J. Krishnamurti
Never confuse who you are with what you do.
Makka
Zeitgeist
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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The lane problem was fixed a long time back. SPECs and the like have been used on motorways for at least a couple of years (particularly at road works), lane changing used to be a prob but now. Good vehicle reg i.d and strong computer power obviates the need.
As the proposal is nationwide it could mean the majority of roads are f*cked plus because they will be linked, it will be hellishly difficult to work out your average over so many points.
Let us not forget the blanket 50mph (except mways and dual carras) part of the deal too. A great many of my fave roads in Dorset are now marked 50, so currently a piddling 81mph on them could lose you your license (30 over the limit).
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Quote me as saying I was miss-quoted.
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makka
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 13/05/2007
Posts: 2866
Loc: Jungle, Near Byron Bay, Austra...
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Perhaps it's time for the old flip up plate.
Mine are so dirty you can't read them. Plus a slightly iffy angle and no piggies on the roads.....
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makka
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
J. Krishnamurti
Never confuse who you are with what you do.
Makka
Zeitgeist
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leigh49
member
Reged: 07/03/2008
Posts: 150
Loc: sunny sarf lunnen
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My cousin is met traffic and he told me that 27 over the limit is a ban.
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Biggles
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/2007
Posts: 3089
Loc: Orion arm of the milky way
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27?
Yep, near enough. Depends on the limit I suppose. 60 in a 30 I would regard as very naughty and an absolute no no. Where as...
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Quote me as saying I was miss-quoted.
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