FastBikerBoy
veteran
Reged: 08/11/2006
Posts: 1479
Loc: Norfolk, UK - Police State
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Following on from the recent 'lets waste a few million £££s by waltzing into parliament and arresting opposition MPs at the behest of the home office' antics....
and
Let's beat fuck out of a few legitimate protesters at the behest of the home office... maybe....
one of the lads I work with has just had his Aprilia 50cc bike seized by the local feds... his crime? I was expecting no tax or no insurance but no he is guilty of that terrible offence of not displaying an L plate.
Fuck me what is going on in this country. Nick him yes, fine him yes but seize the fucking bike and charge him £120 to get it back?
All while their comrades are beating people up in the name of 'crowd control' not to mention allegedly inducing heart attacks.
Speechless again....... 
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 6701
Loc: Mind your own business
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Let's not forget the European Commission's inquiry into the states secret( )survelance of web users. Of course we live in a Police state it's even televised now.
Saw a good one last night actually which remind me of the Busa rider jailed for 120mph. A guy was pulled over in his car carrying his 16year old son he had done so much billy that he was literally all over the place, he looked like he was fitting he was that bad must have done at least 2grams of base I recon, couldn't drive in a straight line. 5 months SUSPENDED a 12 month ban the guy was due to drive a school bus next morning!!! there's justice for you.
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BigHam
veteran
Reged: 12/11/2006
Posts: 1420
Loc: Letchworth, UK
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Quote:
All while their comrades are beating people up in the name of 'crowd control' not to mention allegedly inducing heart attacks.
Have you seen today's news?
A second post mortem has shown the protestor died of internal bleeding, and the offending rozzer has been suspending pending an investigation and possible man slaughter charges.
He'll get away with it of course, they'll just wait for the fuss to die down.
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Where there's a will and Gaffa Tape there's a way!
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FastBikerBoy
veteran
Reged: 08/11/2006
Posts: 1479
Loc: Norfolk, UK - Police State
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That'll be next on the statute books.... legalising state murder. 
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shinybusa
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/01/2008
Posts: 1989
Loc: away with the fairies..
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Have you seen today's news?
A second post mortem has shown the protestor died of internal bleeding.
Before everyone jumps on the bandwagon and cries State Murder...FFS.......The Mrs, who is a Medical professional, has seen the footage of the tv...the fact that the bloke has hit the deck after getting a slap off the Old Bill means nothing....if he is in the process of having a Subarachnoid haemorrage..and this can take hours to show symptoms..it is an INTERNAL BLEED.......which is 99% fatal!!!!
The media present what they want you to see...they don't show the Coppers getting smacked with metal poles , bricks, glass bottles etc....
I have a very good mate who is part of the Met's TSG unit, who was there on the day on the front line so to speak....
The media don't show the whole picture!!!!!!! 
Just swallow the daily bullshit that's getting fed through the idiot screen!
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manxnorton
journeyman
Reged: 05/12/2006
Posts: 60
Loc: Southern England / France
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A few years ago, I would have agreed with you Shiny, but now the cops enforce only those laws which they wish to;- the easy ones, and control those who are easy to control, for example a protesting woman.
If cops are prepared to act thus, they must expect the public to defend themselves.
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 6701
Loc: Mind your own business
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I too would have agreed up until recently Shiny, when public order offences are used to to suit the purposes of the attending officer. Just recently my OTH has taken a liking to some of these Police programmes on SKY etc and on the surface it does throw a light on what the Police do but there have been increasing instances of "overzealous" Policing IMO with the presenter blatantly IMO justifying the Police's action. Recent events IE over the past few years have only served lessen public opinion/respect and support for the Police.
As for the and I baulk at using the term Police Officer who struck the woman what the fuck was he doing striking a woman she posed no threat to anybody OK she was mouthy so what. Does he beat his MRS behind closed doors? there were other techniques he could have used other than to slap her then beat her legs with a baton if I'd done that the chrage would have been assault at least, he's been suspended. I must admit if I'd have been there and seen similar I have laid into him myself the fucking c**t I fucking hate men that hit women.
What excuse did the TSG officer have to shove a man that was walking past? none. It's all well and good saying the guy could have been knocking on deaths door anyway but it all seems a little to convenient it was a hard shove and he didn't go down lightly, had a member of the public been filmed doing the same with the resultant consequences they'd be in a cell on manslaughter or even Murder charges, admittedly the conviction could only be for manslaughter but the copper no he got suspended pending an inquiry.
Since the time of the Miners strike the police seem to have taken more of a legalised state thug roll similar to Hitlers SA stopping short at the moment at summary execution at the moment admittedly, our rights as citizens have slowly but surely been eroded.
Yes we may live in dark times as regards to Terrorism etc but the line has to be drawn and that line should have been drawn long ago.
There was a time when I was young that the Police were looked up to and respected by most if not all and I've tried to instill a healthy respect in my kids telling them that Police are there to help wi9ll only arrest you if you are breaking the law (since when does saying Fuck and standing in the street constitute a crime) and if lost they should go find one but when they ask questions like will they beat me up and arrest me what can I say now?
I try not to get too political on here if I can help it but I have to speak my mind on this point.
Fuck your police state MR Brown.
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Say what you think and think what you say.
Edited by chappers (18/04/2009 12:27)
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FastBikerBoy
veteran
Reged: 08/11/2006
Posts: 1479
Loc: Norfolk, UK - Police State
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Ditto the last two posts. Things really have moved on from several years ago. As you know Shiny in the forces you're often put into very similar situations. I think back fondly to my brief time at Greenham Common where the provocation was persistent and extreme but you also know that the very thing they want is for you to react.
The way I look at it is how would the police treat you if you were filmed doing exactly the same thing? Or if the unlucky sod was one of your relatives? I know I wouldn't settle for a - well he was on his way out anyway. I smell a fucking smoke screen there so there's some wriggle room. The first instance you'd be lucky to not be up for a murder charge and the second one assault at the very least.
Sticking on a uniform doesn't give someone the right to act as a thug. The last time that happened was in the early 30s in Germany.
The most shocking of all to me though is still the arrest of an opposition MP at the say so of someone in Government. No matter how much they deny it you know as well as me the police would never waltz in to parliament and arrest an MP without some backing from a higher authority. Fucking 'ell Mugabe does something similar in Zimbabwe and all hell breaks loose.
If I keep posting posts like this I'm expecting a knock on the door soon. The trouble is that these things slip in quietly and before the country wakes up it's too late.
They manage to have the resources to truck up a moped and take it away for not displaying an L-plate there and then. The hotel had several £0000s of mower and garden equipment nicked a few weeks back and we didn't see a copper for a couple of days.
Targets, that the problem...........
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immy
veteran
Reged: 09/11/2006
Posts: 1350
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Can I just ask if you are judging the Police on what are actually isolated incidents? Ok the 2 happened at the same time-ie same demo. Indeed I do think that the actions of the two-yes thats 2 Officers was appauling-they are all trained?? that despite the amount of provacation they dont-just do not react like this-the IPCC received about 140 complaints about the Police. Now take that in the context that the "media" failed to inform us that 209 Police officers were injured in that demo-79 were hospitalized( 2 seriously with stab wounds-who goes to a demo with a knife if its not to hurt the Police) and only 12 people were arrested in connection with those Officers who were injured (The rest were smart to ensure they all wore hoddies) The Police are well aware that there are elements who go to these demos for one thing only-and its not to demonstrate-can YOU tell which is which, And that stupid women??? Came from Brighton to give her opinion about the G20-and the CCTV showed that she spent most of the day going round the Police ranks baiting the Police when there was cameras near by- I know that there are a lot of over zealous Police Officers out there but they are in the minority-FFS Cam vans and speed cams are mostly no longer the Police-all civis(for example)
Okay-there are rotten apples in the barrel everywere-but none of you are whiter than white-and then when you get caught you whinge-The Police aways have and always will be the punch bag of the Politicians-its just a lot of the people dont realise or dont want to acknowleged this when they want to take their point.
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 6701
Loc: Mind your own business
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Sorry Immy but ever time a large number of people have protested there have been blatant acts of overzealous policing lets just go back as far as the Miners strikes both in Kent and up north there are still people on both sides that bear grudges not so long ago when 40,000 pro hunt protesters converged on London there were images caught on camera of people targeted and dragged out a crowd for little reason and another highly publicised act of overzealous policing. These were respectable members of the community who admittedly angry were out to make a peaceful protest yet these same people have to endure attacks and recently even a murder by thugs calling themselves animal rights protesters with little or no support from the same police force. I understand that the police have a difficult job to do and on the whole they have my support but I'm finding it increasingly hard in light of recent and past acts by a few unprofessional officers that when they are caught face little or no consequences remember the bike chase up the A21 a few months ago the Traffic officer in his Subaru 130+ and 80 in a built up area how do you expect the public to feel when these blatant indiscretions go unpunished where as the public only has to step out of line to be hammered with the full force of the law.
You are right none of us are not whiter than white particularly not me but everytime I have stepped out of line and been arrested I've accepted my punishment without feeling the need to blame anybody else. What you do need to bear in mind though the people who are supposed to protect our property and civil rights are expected to be when in uniform.
In my last few years as a licenced doorman after the SIA licence requirement if I had behaved any less than perfectly on the door I would have lost my licence and been up in court. I did infact lose three front teeth trying to do my job by the letter of the law where as giving the guys a good kicking would have possibly prevented that, As it happens I did loose my SIA licence but that was but that was unconnected with work.
I don't hate the police Immy far from it but I have lost trust in them.
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Say what you think and think what you say.
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makka
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 13/05/2007
Posts: 2866
Loc: Jungle, Near Byron Bay, Austra...
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In all fairness the footage shown on Aus. telly last night showed the guy who was pushed down again and again getting in the way of the police.
The interpretation was that the police kept stopping him but it is also possible that he was deliberately getting in their way. It looked like it to me.
The way that police man pushed him showed that he was very angry and I guess that he didn't become that way just because some guy was walking in front of him. And very convenient that the camera was there so many times to witness it.
I'm the last person to defend the bullying actions of the corporatocracy's enforcers but as with so many things, this may not be what it appears.
No excuse but if you push a guy to the ground you don't expect them to die of internal bleeding.
On the other hand, were do you get the idea that "we live in dark times re-terrorism"? Just because they say it on/in the media all the time?
It's just the latest corporate propaganda. The outside enemy that we should all be afraid of so we can be kept under control and our freedoms rights eroded.
I'm still amazed that anyone still falls for this utterly well know and transparent manipulation technique.
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makka
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
J. Krishnamurti
Never confuse who you are with what you do.
Makka
Zeitgeist
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 6701
Loc: Mind your own business
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The dark time re terrorism quote was more aimed at the alleged dark cloud that hangs over us not any real threat.
Although there have been the recent bombings in London and Spain also a recent failed bombing. Al put a post up in the news section that was taking the piss out of a current campaign although the piss take was funny, the originals remind me of 1940s Nazi Germany.
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Say what you think and think what you say.
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FastBikerBoy
veteran
Reged: 08/11/2006
Posts: 1479
Loc: Norfolk, UK - Police State
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Quote:
Can I just ask if you are judging the Police on what are actually isolated incidents?
No. Not those incidents at all although they obviously make headlines. My personal experiences and experiences of friends over the last few years.
I certainly don't hate the police and realise the ranks have a tough job it's the whole policies issue that pisses me off. Take the kids bike seized for no L-plate, they got a truck out almost instantly - against trying to get the police out when someone's just robbed you or in one case in the process of. The hotels been done 3 times in the last few months.
Not only that but the whole farcical situation I found myself in with a mate about a month ago. Admittedly not the polices fault but still handled in a very heavy handed manner that in slightly different circumstances could have kicked off into something much worse.
We were in the local town having a few beers and by the end of the night we were drunk, definitely no denying it.
We were in one pub where we'd been probably a couple of hours stood at the bar, chatting as you do, certainly not loud or offending anyone. We'd just decided to have another beer there before we moved on and when I ordered them the barmaid said - Sorry I can't serve you. I said "Oh you've closed early tonight" and she said no I can't serve you because you're drunk. I had to do a double take, I thought I'd mis-heard her. now I know the licensing law, I'm an ex-landlord myself so I just said "okay, ridiculous but okay" knowing there's no point in arguing and was ready to move on but my mate, then demanded to see the landlord.
To cut a very long story short it started to get into a very heated argument that ended up with 4 policeman (yes 4) rolling up and bundling us both out the pub with threats of arrest, a night in the cells and Lord knows what else. This was 2 40 somethings out having a quiet drink. The whole situation was manufactured by a jumped up barmaid who we'd only spoken too when we'd ordered drinks and a landlord that was then put in a difficult position of having to back his staff when he probably didn't really want to. (He'd been sat at the table behind us for the last hour or so, so if we were such a problem, how come he didn't ask us to leave?)
The police really didn't help much at all, straight in no questions, man-handled out the door. Fuck it's hardly any surprise there's scraps and riots in the middle of town most nights. I bet a bunch of younger lads wouldn't have taken it quite so easily as we did. Don't they train coppers to handle situations like that any more?
There was a regular duty that I was involved in for many years in the RAF, guarding one of the sites that are used for a type of storage around the UK and constantly attract demonstrators. Usually very clever, highly intelligent ones and one of the things we were taught is when in a situation where it's 1 on 1 or 2 much can be achieved through simple communication rather than getting physical. ie diffuse the situation, my recent experience suggests that the training for police now is to inflame it, not diffuse it.
Rightly or wrongly the police are losing respect, not just from me but from many people of my age that I know of. Most of the younger ones I know never had any respect for them in the first place.
Somebody higher up in the organisation really needs to be addressing that, without the support and respect of the public the job will only get harder and the recent bad publicity does nothing to help it.
/End of War & Peace
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makka
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 13/05/2007
Posts: 2866
Loc: Jungle, Near Byron Bay, Austra...
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Funnily enough I just got done by the tax collectors today after a somewhat "spirited" ride.
$243 and 3 points for 25km over a 60 limit (in a silly place that should be 80 IMO)
The guy was on a bike and pretty friendly, asking about my bike etc.
He would never have caught me if I hadn't slowed for the 60 
Lucky he hadn't seen me five minutes earlier when I would have been at 160 in an 80. (Again one of those ones where they make it 80 because the road is a fun one, not because there is anyone living near it which there isn't.)
I figure that as pretty cheap, probably about half a cent for every kilometer I've spent waaaay over the limit since I got the bike.
The good news is that here in NSW I only get 3 points up to 30 km over and 4 for 45 km over. Though the fines are pretty steep. It goes up to $621 for 30-45 over and $1674 for more than 45 over and 6 points.
If you take it to court and lose: $2200 for any speed over at all!
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makka
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
J. Krishnamurti
Never confuse who you are with what you do.
Makka
Zeitgeist
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manxnorton
journeyman
Reged: 05/12/2006
Posts: 60
Loc: Southern England / France
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Quote:
If you take it to court and lose: $2200 for any speed over at all!
So, you're discouraged from seeking the protection of the law when not guilty? Seems remarkably like the UK.
How much do they fine you for reporting a burglary?
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BigHam
veteran
Reged: 12/11/2006
Posts: 1420
Loc: Letchworth, UK
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It's not as bad as the media are making out to be, but it's certainly not ideal.
The newspaper guy that died was also involved in several incidents with the police before he was shoved.
It sounds like I'm defending the police, but I'm not.....
The point that Immy made about the protestors wearing hoodies is a fair one, however I've also heard that some police were covering up their numbers so they couldn't be identified as easily. Surely that makes you wonder?
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Where there's a will and Gaffa Tape there's a way!
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 6701
Loc: Mind your own business
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Quote:
The point that Immy made about the protestors wearing hoodies is a fair one, however I've also heard that some police were covering up their numbers so they couldn't be identified as easily. Surely that makes you wonder?
It's not a rumour check out photos of the officer who attacked the woman.
One of the main issues I think is a loss of trust and respect in/for the Police.
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Say what you think and think what you say.
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chappers
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 6701
Loc: Mind your own business
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Quote:
The newspaper guy that died was also involved in several incidents with the police before he was shoved.
Anybody come forwards with some proof to support that.
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Say what you think and think what you say.
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shinybusa
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/01/2008
Posts: 1989
Loc: away with the fairies..
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Quote:
I've also heard that some police were covering up their numbers so they couldn't be identified as easily. Surely that makes you wonder?
The Sergeant who was filmed was wering WHITE shoulder boards.....not numbers ..so he can be identified as sergeant by other coppers if it all goes pete tong....
I have a mate who is MET TSG..he was there on the day....and some of the so called protesters had jumped on the bandwagon looking to cause trouble...Police were hospitalized with knife wounds!!!!!!!!
A peaceful demonstration doesn't make you go out tooled up does it!!!
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makka
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 13/05/2007
Posts: 2866
Loc: Jungle, Near Byron Bay, Austra...
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I'm afraid Shiny that the police will have to get used to it.
They are perceived as the enforcers for the corporatocracy and as such will become legitimate targets in the civil war that is to come if the corporescent ones don't give up power gracefully (which I very much doubt they will).
It is they who are to blame by using the police as their bully boys.
Those who are less driven by testosterone are very aware that the individual police on the front line are not the enemy but there are plenty of very angry (justifiably IMO) young men who are not.
Perhaps it's time for those in the police force to start some serious dialogue with their colleagues about what role they feel is ethically supportable in the coming struggle. Whether they are on the side of right or might.
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makka
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
J. Krishnamurti
Never confuse who you are with what you do.
Makka
Zeitgeist
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